jervisjohnsons

Ok, this one has been around for a while, but Demons have a book now, and that book says that Greater Demons are both MONSTERS and CHARACTERS.

So does the Collar affect them? I think its clear it does. The Demon book quite plainly states they are monsters AND characters and follow the rules for both.

But its the first time I have ever thought about Orcs, so what do I know?

Somewhere or another, it states that monster/character combos have the presence of mind to resist items like that, so they ignore the effects. Not sure of the exact context, but if you dig around for it, it's out there. One of the canadian FAQ's, I think.

This is what Nidal is referring to from the BoC FAQ.

"Q. Does the Rune of the True Beast affect monstrous characters (i.e. Treeman Ancients, Greater daemons, Shaggoth Champions, ect.)?

A. No, they ae characters. Note that this means that a Shaggoth is affected, while a Shaggoth Champion isn't. A monstrous character is assumed to have the strenght of mind and willpower to resist these sorts of things, while most other monsters are more mindless and instinctual in behavior."

People want to take the line "these sorts of things" to mean magic items. (and possibly spells). So they apply this FAQ to the collar of zorga and the beast cowers spell. First, I think its a terrible answer to the question, why not just let the item work how its supposed to work. Second I think applying this FAQ to other stuff is crap.

But its out there and people will try to argue it. So make sure you get it straight before the start of the game.

I tend to agree that the collar works against Greater Demons. BUt i also submit that the jag-offs who wrote the codex didnt realise some of the implications "monstrous characters" had on certain items. Especially in the case of a 5pt magic item that handicaps a 600pt General. I dont think thats how it was intended to play, but i under RAW i think it works.

I feel that the Collar works against Greater Daemons

^^^^ What he said.

I don't know. I don't have a dog in the fight either way, and I think character monsters are immune to the collar based on "A monstrous character is assumed to have the strength of mind and willpower to resist these sorts of things".

So Nidal, does that mean a BT is immune to the Beast Cowers? Just curious.

Great, another rules argument with no answer.

Miles, unfortunately, as per their ruling, I think it is immune, unless something else says otherwise.

Personally, I think their ruling is idiotic (particularly in how it applies to unit champions) but I think that if you want to go RAW, you have to accept it.

But hey, if someone can get their ear on this, they have been very quick in turning around FAQ ansewrs as of late, so who knows...

They need to make a list of " these sorts of things" for us.